What the Butler did

A collection of writing by Brother Tony Butler

Appendix 1 Edward and Samuel Mortimer – their relationship November 15, 2008

Filed under: FamilyHistory — Tony @ 11:48 am

In October 2008 I had some professional research done on Edward Mortimer. The results provided no further information on him, but the researcher made some pertinent suggestions concerning the relationship between Edward Mortimer and his supposed son, Samuel. At the same time I received an email from Alan Ingram who suggested that the relationship might not be as clear as the above comments suggest. Consequently I offer the following reflections on the supposed relationship.

Alan Ingram wrote (27 October 2008): “My interest is in the family of Jackson Mortimer born 1762 and his five children: Ann Eleanor, Henry William and Caroline Selina by first marriage to Elizabeth Vaughan; Mary Emma and Jane by his secnd marriage to Mary Etherley. Mary Emma Mortimer was one of my maternal grandmother’s paternal grandmothers, and I have a family bible that clearly indicates that Jackson Mortimer is a direct ancestor. It is clear from the records of St Phillip’s Birmingham that Jackson Mortimer was christened 5 November 1762, his parents being Samuel and Eleanor, and that Samuel Mortimer married Eleanor Jackson 4 May 1852. But who was Samuel’s parents and where was he born?

“Having the opportunity of visiting the British Library recently I was able to see that article by James Arthur (Guns Review, July 1978), but unfortunately he gives no indication of how he arrives at this information, so at present I can only approach this information with a good deal of caution. The Guns Review has now ceased publication so I was wondering whether you had had an opportunity of finding out from him what his sources were. Several members of Genes Reunited would seem to have read your history and have Arthur’s information about Edward and Samuel Mortimer as part of their family history. I think it would be good to know if there is any way that this information can be confirmed.”

Val Atkinson carried out the research I requested about Edward Mortimer and reported as follows:
(9815 Staffordshire Research Report. British Ancestors va002d2530@blueyonder.co.uk 22 October 2008)

“Research was carried out at the Staffordshire County Record Office Eastgate Stafford for 2 hours. The Parish Registers of St Giles, Newcastle under Lyme are held here on microfiche. Originally I was given a possible birth range of 1615-1625 for Edward Mortimer in Newcastle but in the second communication it was stated that his son Samuel married in 1752. There is a huge gap between 1625 and 1752. Even if Samuel were the youngest son and older when he married I would expect a birth date for his father Edward to be 1660 -1680 which would be after the beheading of Charles I.

“Information provided:
Edward MORTIMER was born c1615-1625 [guestimate by AM Butler]
Son Samuel MORTIMER born Warwick the youngest of 21 children of Edward
Samuel MORTIMER Married Eleanor JACKSON on 4 Apr 1752
Son Jackson MORTIMER was born on 22 Oct 1762

“QUESTION: Could there be a generation missing? There are 127 years from the birth of Edward to the marriage of his son Samuel. [In a later communication (25 October 2008), the researcher wrote: If there is a relationship between Samuel MORTIMER and Edward the Civil War army captain it can’t be father and son no matter what the various claims are. We know for a fact that Samuel married in 1752 which is over a hundred years after the birth of Edward.]

“Bearing this anomaly in mind I examined the Registers in the 1st volume of St Giles which covered 1615-621.
Dates searched were 1563-1705.
There was no sign of a Baptism for Edward or indeed of anyone with the Mortimer name.
1621-1627 are missing entries.
1628-1653 no Mortimer mentioned.
1653-1712 no Mortimer mentioned.

“I had time to check as far as 1712 but with the same result. All Baptisms, Marriages and Burials were covered. Some entries are very faded or difficult to read and I had to rely heavily on the transcripts in many instances but nevertheless there were no MORTIMER entries that I could see. St Giles was the only Anglican Parish Church in operation in the town of Newcastle until into the 1800s.”

With that information in mind and until further information comes to light, it would be wise to regard the supposed relationship between Edward and Samuel Mortimer (father and son) with some caution.


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